Another parody of the city's deer culling activity
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=41544
5058.1. Asking neighboring cities to help pay for culling...
by solonjoe3, 01/17/12 10:30 AM
Re: Serious response regarding Deer Killing... by bystander75, 01/17/12 10:30 AM
.
Mayor Drucker: Maria, can you get me the mayor of Bentleyville on the line?
Maria: Bentleyville?
Mayor Drucker: Yeah, it’s a city north of us, remember.
Maria: oh, ok.
[Five minutes pass]
Mayor Drucker: Maria, how’s that call coming?
Maria: Sally hid the phone books so I’m looking it up on one of the internets.
Showing posts with label SolonForum. Show all posts
Showing posts with label SolonForum. Show all posts
Thursday, January 19, 2012
Monday, January 16, 2012
Deer coordination teleconference?
A parody of the city's deer culling activity
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=41527
5056. Deer coordination teleconference?
by solonjoe3, 01/16/12 1:21 PM
Phone system: Stolarsky has joined the conference.
Russo: Ok, let’s get started. It’s already past the time.
Phone system: Stolarsky has left the conference.
Russo: He’ll have to catch up. Let’s start by looking at the maps for Ward I. You should have a ward one map on the screen.
Meany: I don’t see a map.
Russo: What do you see?
Meany: Wait it second…. I think it’s asking me if I want to let Cisco meeting center software run my computer. What should I do?
Russo: Click “yes.” Ok, we’ll continue on. You can see on the map that we have 8 culling sites in ward 1.
Phone system: Stolarsky has joined the conference.
Russo: We don’t quite have the coverage we’d like in the eastern side of the ward but….
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=41527
5056. Deer coordination teleconference?
by solonjoe3, 01/16/12 1:21 PM
Phone system: Stolarsky has joined the conference.
Russo: Ok, let’s get started. It’s already past the time.
Phone system: Stolarsky has left the conference.
Russo: He’ll have to catch up. Let’s start by looking at the maps for Ward I. You should have a ward one map on the screen.
Meany: I don’t see a map.
Russo: What do you see?
Meany: Wait it second…. I think it’s asking me if I want to let Cisco meeting center software run my computer. What should I do?
Russo: Click “yes.” Ok, we’ll continue on. You can see on the map that we have 8 culling sites in ward 1.
Phone system: Stolarsky has joined the conference.
Russo: We don’t quite have the coverage we’d like in the eastern side of the ward but….
Tuesday, November 1, 2011
What's really practical?
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40290
by SolonPol, 11/01/11 11:55 AM
Biker has trouble seeing the evidence, makes a few faulty assumptions and deems culling to be the only practical method. I see the same old plan with a new comprehensive label so I see this lazy misleading form of local govt as not pracitical. No offense to Biker, I'm sure he isn't meaning to support midocrity, he just likes his tomatoes, someone should get him some deer netting and a dog.
Since Biker's recent arguments are buried so deep in the thread, let me repeat them here and point out a few things!
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40280
Biker said "4900.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1. Not practical by SolonBiker, 11/01/11 2:13 AM Re: ..BIG BUCK'S..!!.. by bubbaburgers, 11/01/11 2:13 AM
The light system seems to require loud and unpleasant artificial screeching noises. Maybe that works out in the middle of Montana ... but I'm guessing people in Solon would not want to line all our roads with loud screeching noises to save a few deer. "
Where did you get this false info / assumption? At the deer expo that you and no one from the local govt attended, they had one of these devices. The older version would not be heard inside a home or over traffic noise. The new version was barely audible to most people in a quiet auditorum.
Biker said "As for the contraception, I have yet to see evidence it's practical. I see a smattering of stories. Some say 80% effective in year 1, but down to below 50% effective in year 2. Then the stories say you need to capture the deer to administer, you need to tag the deer. So you get a per deer cost of $1,000 and a questionable to diminishing return in the out years. And an ongoing program and more expense than what we're talking about."
Again, not sure where he got his info, but apparently it wasn't the same info I provided him that he requested. The old method was to capture, the new method is to dart them, no more complicated than sharpshooting and no more expensive.
https://sites.google.com/site/solondeerdotcom/SolonDeer-non-lethal-alternatives/contraception
Alternative methods work on all the deer, killing only works on those that are killed. You kill a deer, the other deer have more fawns at a higher rate because there is less competition for food. You dart a deer and they don't have fawns no matter how much food there is.
Biker says "Until I see clear cut evidence that these alternative "comprehensive" methods can work, and do so effectively, I'd rather see Solon resume culling."
Actually wrong word there, should have used "non-lethal". The problem with the word "comprehensive" is that the city is using it on the same old killing plan, don't change the name, change the plan.
We have a circular argument here, there is convincing evidence that you won't see, so you won't be convinced until you see it here in Solon, and because the city is passing off the same old plan under a new name you won't see it here. Pass Issue 94 and you'll force them to get creative, to try new things, and you will be pleasently surprised that we, like other even more progressive cities, can have our deer, and our cars and our tomatoes.
Biker says "If -- a few years from now -- there's a body of evidence saying we can get the same results (fewer deer, fewer accidents, less devastated ecosystem) at a lower cost without culling ... then by all means, we can adjust. "
There will never be a local body of evidence, this killing plan, if allowed to start, will never ever stop, it would not have stopped if the city realized how much flack they'd recieve in restarting. The city may be many things, but they aren't stone cold dumb, they will never repeat tha mistake of stopping the killing.
Biker said " But right now, that's just a fairy tale, so I stick with my desire to move forward on the culling."
We're not "moving forward", we're repeating failed history and then we'll wonder why we didn't get different results. "Moving forward" would be to truly have a "comprehensive" plan, not the same old plan with a new name.
Stop the insanity, raise the bar, force the city to think, save money, vote YES on 94!
by SolonPol, 11/01/11 11:55 AM
Biker has trouble seeing the evidence, makes a few faulty assumptions and deems culling to be the only practical method. I see the same old plan with a new comprehensive label so I see this lazy misleading form of local govt as not pracitical. No offense to Biker, I'm sure he isn't meaning to support midocrity, he just likes his tomatoes, someone should get him some deer netting and a dog.
Since Biker's recent arguments are buried so deep in the thread, let me repeat them here and point out a few things!
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40280
Biker said "4900.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1. Not practical by SolonBiker, 11/01/11 2:13 AM Re: ..BIG BUCK'S..!!.. by bubbaburgers, 11/01/11 2:13 AM
The light system seems to require loud and unpleasant artificial screeching noises. Maybe that works out in the middle of Montana ... but I'm guessing people in Solon would not want to line all our roads with loud screeching noises to save a few deer. "
Where did you get this false info / assumption? At the deer expo that you and no one from the local govt attended, they had one of these devices. The older version would not be heard inside a home or over traffic noise. The new version was barely audible to most people in a quiet auditorum.
Biker said "As for the contraception, I have yet to see evidence it's practical. I see a smattering of stories. Some say 80% effective in year 1, but down to below 50% effective in year 2. Then the stories say you need to capture the deer to administer, you need to tag the deer. So you get a per deer cost of $1,000 and a questionable to diminishing return in the out years. And an ongoing program and more expense than what we're talking about."
Again, not sure where he got his info, but apparently it wasn't the same info I provided him that he requested. The old method was to capture, the new method is to dart them, no more complicated than sharpshooting and no more expensive.
https://sites.google.com/site/solondeerdotcom/SolonDeer-non-lethal-alternatives/contraception
Alternative methods work on all the deer, killing only works on those that are killed. You kill a deer, the other deer have more fawns at a higher rate because there is less competition for food. You dart a deer and they don't have fawns no matter how much food there is.
Biker says "Until I see clear cut evidence that these alternative "comprehensive" methods can work, and do so effectively, I'd rather see Solon resume culling."
Actually wrong word there, should have used "non-lethal". The problem with the word "comprehensive" is that the city is using it on the same old killing plan, don't change the name, change the plan.
We have a circular argument here, there is convincing evidence that you won't see, so you won't be convinced until you see it here in Solon, and because the city is passing off the same old plan under a new name you won't see it here. Pass Issue 94 and you'll force them to get creative, to try new things, and you will be pleasently surprised that we, like other even more progressive cities, can have our deer, and our cars and our tomatoes.
Biker says "If -- a few years from now -- there's a body of evidence saying we can get the same results (fewer deer, fewer accidents, less devastated ecosystem) at a lower cost without culling ... then by all means, we can adjust. "
There will never be a local body of evidence, this killing plan, if allowed to start, will never ever stop, it would not have stopped if the city realized how much flack they'd recieve in restarting. The city may be many things, but they aren't stone cold dumb, they will never repeat tha mistake of stopping the killing.
Biker said " But right now, that's just a fairy tale, so I stick with my desire to move forward on the culling."
We're not "moving forward", we're repeating failed history and then we'll wonder why we didn't get different results. "Moving forward" would be to truly have a "comprehensive" plan, not the same old plan with a new name.
Stop the insanity, raise the bar, force the city to think, save money, vote YES on 94!
Saturday, October 29, 2011
No One Does What Solon Does
4893.4.7.
Re: Vote YES on Issue 94 by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:55 AM
No One Does What Solon Does
by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:55 AMRe: Vote YES on Issue 94 by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:55 AM
NO ONE, not even the MetroParks. They don't overpay "professional" killers $500+ per deer. They have their own rangers do the shooting. It isn't free, but it isn't outrageously expensive either.
Metroparks can "hunt" because they have very large tracts of land, Solon DOESN'T. Solon has to have cops babysit the (paid or unpaid) hunters, MetroParks uses more rangers.
Some nearby cities just do hunting. It's cheaper (NOT FREE), but they have much larger lot sizes than Solon does, so they aren't subjected to the large risks that Solon is.
Metroparks can "hunt" because they have very large tracts of land, Solon DOESN'T. Solon has to have cops babysit the (paid or unpaid) hunters, MetroParks uses more rangers.
Some nearby cities just do hunting. It's cheaper (NOT FREE), but they have much larger lot sizes than Solon does, so they aren't subjected to the large risks that Solon is.
Strike one, two, and three. NOT!
4893.4.6.
Re: Vote YES on Issue 94 by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:43 AM
Strike one, two, and three. NOT!
by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:43 AMRe: Vote YES on Issue 94 by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:43 AM
SolonPol writes: "Solon has refused to consider non-lethal methods, see upcoming post. With 5 years of failure with lethal methods, its time to force the city to into a different direction."
SolonBiker writes "I have to disagree with this. Non-lethal has never been proven to work or be cost effective. We've seen a parade of ludicrous money pits paraded before us. None of them work. From street reflectors to contraception to food parks for deer. Strike one, two, and three."
0) It's never been proven because the city has REFUSED to try. Other's have tried and succeeded. Issue 94 changes that.
1) Street reflectors have been proven to work in Montana against huge herds of deer and elk. So why don't they work in Solon? Because they were designed to fail. They are designed to be installed in a continuous stretch to discourage deer from crossing the road. In Solon they were installed with 500 foot gaps to insure that the deer would cross the road nearby the reflectors. Installing them properly would prevent ALL the deer from crossing the road when cars drive by.
2) Contraception DOES WORK, but we can't use it because the hunting license funded ODOW won't allow us to use it. That isn't a strike against deer proponents, its a strike against the hunters who demand an ever growing supply of "game".
3) Food Parks, like reflectors, WOULD change deer behavior. The city chose to NOT EVEN TRY because the ODOW wouldn't allow them to KILL if they did this.
My statement stands as correct - "Solon has refused to consider non-lethal methods"
SolonBiker writes "I have to disagree with this. Non-lethal has never been proven to work or be cost effective. We've seen a parade of ludicrous money pits paraded before us. None of them work. From street reflectors to contraception to food parks for deer. Strike one, two, and three."
0) It's never been proven because the city has REFUSED to try. Other's have tried and succeeded. Issue 94 changes that.
1) Street reflectors have been proven to work in Montana against huge herds of deer and elk. So why don't they work in Solon? Because they were designed to fail. They are designed to be installed in a continuous stretch to discourage deer from crossing the road. In Solon they were installed with 500 foot gaps to insure that the deer would cross the road nearby the reflectors. Installing them properly would prevent ALL the deer from crossing the road when cars drive by.
2) Contraception DOES WORK, but we can't use it because the hunting license funded ODOW won't allow us to use it. That isn't a strike against deer proponents, its a strike against the hunters who demand an ever growing supply of "game".
3) Food Parks, like reflectors, WOULD change deer behavior. The city chose to NOT EVEN TRY because the ODOW wouldn't allow them to KILL if they did this.
My statement stands as correct - "Solon has refused to consider non-lethal methods"
Joe's favorite point
4895.
Joe's favorite point
by SolonPol, 10/27/11 3:56 AMis that voting YES on 94 will stick it in the eye of city council and administration.
While that may sound a bit funny, there are actually serious reasons to do just that. The city has long been criticized for its myopic, KILL KILL KILL strategy and so decided to "fix it." Not by actually fixing it, but by "spinning" propaganda and producing a sham "comphrenesive" plan.
The city CLAIMS they are offering non-lethal alternatives, then in Oct, they admitted that it was the homeowner responsibility to implement these, the city could only KILL.
That isn't true, either because the city thought the public was dumb enough to swallow a sham plan with the title of "comphrehensive" or they didn't THINK.
This was pointed out to the city on multiple occasions and they continued to dig their heals in, they were sticking to their "story".
So if the public really is DUMB ENOUGH to swallow this sh-t, then you can swallow it, but if you are like me, someone who doesn't like the taste, who doesn't like to be lied to, who wants the city to THINK, then join me in demanding that the city do just that by voting YES on 94.
And oh yeah, it sticks it in their eye.
While that may sound a bit funny, there are actually serious reasons to do just that. The city has long been criticized for its myopic, KILL KILL KILL strategy and so decided to "fix it." Not by actually fixing it, but by "spinning" propaganda and producing a sham "comphrenesive" plan.
The city CLAIMS they are offering non-lethal alternatives, then in Oct, they admitted that it was the homeowner responsibility to implement these, the city could only KILL.
That isn't true, either because the city thought the public was dumb enough to swallow a sham plan with the title of "comphrehensive" or they didn't THINK.
This was pointed out to the city on multiple occasions and they continued to dig their heals in, they were sticking to their "story".
So if the public really is DUMB ENOUGH to swallow this sh-t, then you can swallow it, but if you are like me, someone who doesn't like the taste, who doesn't like to be lied to, who wants the city to THINK, then join me in demanding that the city do just that by voting YES on 94.
And oh yeah, it sticks it in their eye.
Here are some numbers for you
4896.4.
Re: The numbers by SolonBiker, 10/27/11 3:38 PM
In 2005, the first year for culling, 602 deer were killed. Of the 602 deer, 191 were under a year of age, I believe they’re called fawns. 87 deer were under two years of age, 91 were under 3 years, 74 were under 4 years, 159 were 4 years or older.
After being killed, the Does were butchered and the fetuses were counted. Among the fawns, 5 were carrying a single fetus and 2 were carrying twins. Among the yearlings 24 were carrying a single fetus and 22 were carrying twins. Among the adults, 49 were carrying a single fetus and 204 were carrying twins.
These are facts obtained through an FOI request of the City’s records, no exaggeration, no hyperbole, just the numbers. Solon, and it’s contractor were killing deer barely old enough to know what’s going on and killing pregnant Does and then counting fetuses. HOW MORBID IS THAT! Is that what you want us to be known for? Is it too much to ask people to drive more carefully, provide some screening for their picture windows and maybe invest in some deer netting for their tomato plants?
Here are some numbers for you.
by walley, 10/27/11 3:38 PMRe: The numbers by SolonBiker, 10/27/11 3:38 PM
In 2005, the first year for culling, 602 deer were killed. Of the 602 deer, 191 were under a year of age, I believe they’re called fawns. 87 deer were under two years of age, 91 were under 3 years, 74 were under 4 years, 159 were 4 years or older.
After being killed, the Does were butchered and the fetuses were counted. Among the fawns, 5 were carrying a single fetus and 2 were carrying twins. Among the yearlings 24 were carrying a single fetus and 22 were carrying twins. Among the adults, 49 were carrying a single fetus and 204 were carrying twins.
These are facts obtained through an FOI request of the City’s records, no exaggeration, no hyperbole, just the numbers. Solon, and it’s contractor were killing deer barely old enough to know what’s going on and killing pregnant Does and then counting fetuses. HOW MORBID IS THAT! Is that what you want us to be known for? Is it too much to ask people to drive more carefully, provide some screening for their picture windows and maybe invest in some deer netting for their tomato plants?
Wednesday, October 19, 2011
4883. Issue 94
by westpettiboner, 10/19/11 3:01 PM
Let us look at this from a different angle. We pay for police to keep crime down every year. We pay for fire fighters to put out fires every year. If we eliminated the police and fire departments because crime and fires are low in Solon and then in the following years when they "rebounded" would we say the money in previous years was wasted ?
We need to vote no on this to keep some type of culling and /or hunting open as an option. I also agree we need to find a cheaper way to do it. But banning lethal options for pie in the sky light reflectors that won't last past the first snow plow and oh by the way even when in prime condition only work at night.
4883.1. Missing Points
by SolonPol, 10/19/11 4:12 PM
Re: Issue 94 by westpettiboner, 10/19/11 4:12 PM
First, EVERYONE has police and fire, but NO ONE has a $160K / yr killing program. Let's not pretend that everyone does and that somehow deer killing is a standard city service, IT ISN'T! Solon is mentioned all over Ohio as being unique with this NO ONE has spent a million dollars as we are approaching this year in this fool hardy endeavor.
So why are we unique in having a deer killing program?
First, Solonites can't drive. I've seen it time and again on the BB Rd project, I just got off the phone with my next door neighbor who nearly got hit, but they plowed into the back of a construction vehicle with flashing strobe lights first. That car was just towed away. So the problem is more about distracted drivers, kill the deer and they are going to hit something else.
Second, Solonites just LOVE their landscaping, you'd think they could plant things deer don't eat, and some people are even smart enough to grow things they do eat and still not have them eat it by the way they protect their garden. Can we really blow six digits a year to protect the ignorant gardener and landscaper? For a tiny fraction of that we can bring in experts who will educate people in deer proof gardening and solve that problem.
Third, it's no secret that many people at city hall are recreational hunters and would love to hunt here rather than in southern Ohio. Why should taxpayers support a six digit annual recreational program for a small portion of the population? As Joe would say the precedent is set, we have subsidized Opera, I just can't figure out why Joe is voting for subsidized recreational hunting.
Fourth, it's NOT about having a culling/hunting option. First it isn't an option, they will be spending a million dollars every 6 years. That's a serious financial commitment. Second they have no non-killing options that make sense. They have none, they aren't interested in having any. The city is ignoring very valid alternative techniques with their tunnel vision, SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT. All the city did is put lipstick on the same old pig and passed it off as a "Comprehensive" Deer Mgt Plan, by adding crossbows to expensive shooters.
Fifth, Strieter Lites are NOT the only solution, its one of many. https://sites.google.com/site/solondeerdotcom/SolonDeer-non-lethal-alternatives
Stay tuned to http://SolonDeer.org/ and http://solondeer.blogspot.com/ for an upcoming article on just what the city can do if they want to be truly comprehensive.
Why is NO ONE NEARBY spending $160K per year? Because none of them are as stupid or as wasteful as Solon!
Can we all agree on that?
And once we agree, how do we fix it? They've been told to be comprehensive and they were too stubborn and set on killing to do anything but write an empty document that offered more of the same expensive, inefficient, killing only programs.
There's only one way to get through to people who are that stubborn, take all their weapons away and force them to THINK!
That's what I'm going to do, VOTE YES on Issue 94 and tell city hall to THINK!
Originally published here.
by westpettiboner, 10/19/11 3:01 PM
Let us look at this from a different angle. We pay for police to keep crime down every year. We pay for fire fighters to put out fires every year. If we eliminated the police and fire departments because crime and fires are low in Solon and then in the following years when they "rebounded" would we say the money in previous years was wasted ?
We need to vote no on this to keep some type of culling and /or hunting open as an option. I also agree we need to find a cheaper way to do it. But banning lethal options for pie in the sky light reflectors that won't last past the first snow plow and oh by the way even when in prime condition only work at night.
4883.1. Missing Points
by SolonPol, 10/19/11 4:12 PM
Re: Issue 94 by westpettiboner, 10/19/11 4:12 PM
First, EVERYONE has police and fire, but NO ONE has a $160K / yr killing program. Let's not pretend that everyone does and that somehow deer killing is a standard city service, IT ISN'T! Solon is mentioned all over Ohio as being unique with this NO ONE has spent a million dollars as we are approaching this year in this fool hardy endeavor.
So why are we unique in having a deer killing program?
First, Solonites can't drive. I've seen it time and again on the BB Rd project, I just got off the phone with my next door neighbor who nearly got hit, but they plowed into the back of a construction vehicle with flashing strobe lights first. That car was just towed away. So the problem is more about distracted drivers, kill the deer and they are going to hit something else.
Second, Solonites just LOVE their landscaping, you'd think they could plant things deer don't eat, and some people are even smart enough to grow things they do eat and still not have them eat it by the way they protect their garden. Can we really blow six digits a year to protect the ignorant gardener and landscaper? For a tiny fraction of that we can bring in experts who will educate people in deer proof gardening and solve that problem.
Third, it's no secret that many people at city hall are recreational hunters and would love to hunt here rather than in southern Ohio. Why should taxpayers support a six digit annual recreational program for a small portion of the population? As Joe would say the precedent is set, we have subsidized Opera, I just can't figure out why Joe is voting for subsidized recreational hunting.
Fourth, it's NOT about having a culling/hunting option. First it isn't an option, they will be spending a million dollars every 6 years. That's a serious financial commitment. Second they have no non-killing options that make sense. They have none, they aren't interested in having any. The city is ignoring very valid alternative techniques with their tunnel vision, SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT. All the city did is put lipstick on the same old pig and passed it off as a "Comprehensive" Deer Mgt Plan, by adding crossbows to expensive shooters.
Fifth, Strieter Lites are NOT the only solution, its one of many. https://sites.google.com/site/solondeerdotcom/SolonDeer-non-lethal-alternatives
Stay tuned to http://SolonDeer.org/ and http://solondeer.blogspot.com/ for an upcoming article on just what the city can do if they want to be truly comprehensive.
Why is NO ONE NEARBY spending $160K per year? Because none of them are as stupid or as wasteful as Solon!
Can we all agree on that?
And once we agree, how do we fix it? They've been told to be comprehensive and they were too stubborn and set on killing to do anything but write an empty document that offered more of the same expensive, inefficient, killing only programs.
There's only one way to get through to people who are that stubborn, take all their weapons away and force them to THINK!
That's what I'm going to do, VOTE YES on Issue 94 and tell city hall to THINK!
Originally published here.
Friday, June 10, 2011
Deer Management in early June
Posted as Deer Management on the Solon Forum
by SolonDeer, 06/08/11 12:21 AM
Safety recommends a deer plan without any cost attached. Are we so rich that we don't have to ask the price? We have $150K budgeted this year for a plan, sight unseen.
How long does it take to figure out the cost? We did it for 5 years. They started planning this last Oct, but Stanek needs 2 more weeks to finalize the costs.
Russo suggested citizens look to Solon's website for answers to deer issues. Citizens who'd like a fuller picture of these issues should add the following sites to their reading list:
http://SolonDeer.org/ for an introduction,
http://SolonDeer.blogspot.com/ for in-depth articles and
http://SolonDeer.com/ to learn how to get involved.
Russo also felt a need to correct citizen "mis-statements" but not his own when he stated that the hunting would be on city land, but App 1 C, pg 14, 2nd section talks about lands used with no such restriction. While Russo is quick to complain of other's misstatements, his own record of misstatements is poor.
by SolonDeer, 06/08/11 12:21 AM
Safety recommends a deer plan without any cost attached. Are we so rich that we don't have to ask the price? We have $150K budgeted this year for a plan, sight unseen.
How long does it take to figure out the cost? We did it for 5 years. They started planning this last Oct, but Stanek needs 2 more weeks to finalize the costs.
Russo suggested citizens look to Solon's website for answers to deer issues. Citizens who'd like a fuller picture of these issues should add the following sites to their reading list:
http://SolonDeer.org/ for an introduction,
http://SolonDeer.blogspot.com/ for in-depth articles and
http://SolonDeer.com/ to learn how to get involved.
Russo also felt a need to correct citizen "mis-statements" but not his own when he stated that the hunting would be on city land, but App 1 C, pg 14, 2nd section talks about lands used with no such restriction. While Russo is quick to complain of other's misstatements, his own record of misstatements is poor.
Saturday, March 26, 2011
Don't Mess with Deer
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=37219
4498.6. Behind the scenes at the secret deer planning workshop
by solonjoe3, 02/09/11 9:23 AM
Re: Friends, you gotta read. PB by butdad, 02/09/11 9:23 AM
Stanek: I’ve asked White Buffalo to come and present their comprehensive management plan for our review. But before I give them the floor, let me say a few things first. You guys are driving me crazy. Save the deer. Kill the deer. Captive bolts. Birth control. Catch and release. Crossbows. Introduce wolves. And now there is even talk of lassoing deer and raising them like livestock. We need you guys to shut up.
We had a perfectly good plan with the sharpshooters and you shut it down. Now it is going to cost us a lot more to start it back up. This is bad planning. Worse still, all the crazies are going to show up at meetings and start calling everybody Bambi killers. That is no way to run a city. We professionals are supposed to make all decisions in secret and you political guys are supposed to pass them on the consent agenda. What were you people thinking?
McDrucker: I’m sorry, this one is mainly on me. I shouldn’t have pulled the program for year. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Frankland: That’s the problem with you elected officials. You think you can make decision on your own. Let us professionals do the deciding. I’m shocked after all the years of training you had under Patton you would come out and make such a rookie mistake. It’s going to cost all of us.
Weber: Speaking in financial terms, your mistake was expensive. By skipping a year, the extra cost is going to cut into the Christmas party fund. Instead of Champagne we may have to make do with Hawaiian punch and Everclear.
Pelunis: I warned her. But would she listen no? She just had a Kraus moment. Couldn’t keep her big mouth shut.
McDrucker: Ok, ok everybody. I learned my lesson. I won’t make any more decisions. So what do we do?
Stanek: We hire white buffalo back, that’s what we do. And we shut up about the crossbows.
Russo: Crossbows are cheaper.
Stanek: Look buddy, I don’t tell you how to do your job, so stop telling us how to do ours. Crossbows mean public debate. WE DON’T LIKE PUBLIC DEBATE. It makes folks start asking questions and I want to keep my city car. So just sit on your hands and let us tell you how to vote, ok?
Russo: Ok.
Richmond: I don’t see why we can’t discuss it.
Lobe: Lady, I don’t know how the heck you got appointed, but it was obviously a mistake. Either you play ball or nobody is going to pick up your trash for the next six months.
Frankland: And I’ll have more inspectors at your house than you can shake a stick at.
Stanek: Ok. White Buffalo, you have the floor.
Here's what started it...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=37202
4498. Friends, you gotta read. PB
by butdad, 02/08/11 7:21 PM
I figured a few folks would enjoy a laugh.
Why we shoot deer in the wild
(A letter from someone who wants to remain anonymous, who farms, writes well and actually tried this).
I had this idea that I could rope a deer, put it in a stall, feed it up on corn for a couple of weeks, then kill it and eat it. The first step in this adventure was getting a deer. I figured that, since they congregate at my cattle feeder and do not seem to have much fear of me when we are there (a bold one will sometimes come right up and sniff at the bags of feed while I am in the back of the truck not 4 feet away), it should not be difficult to rope one, get up to it and toss a bag over its head (to calm it down) then hog tie it and transport it home.
I filled the cattle feeder then hid down at the end with my rope. The cattle, having seen the roping thing before, stayed well back.. They were not having any of it. After about 20 minutes, my deer showed up -- 3 of them. I picked out a likely looking one, stepped out from the end of the feeder, and threw my rope.
The deer just stood there and stared at me. I wrapped the rope around my waist and twisted the end so I would have a good hold.
The deer still just stood and stared at me, but you could tell it was mildly concerned about the whole rope situation. I took a step towards it, it took a step away. I put a little tension on the rope .., and then received an education. The first thing that I learned is that, while a deer may just stand there looking at you funny while you rope it, they are spurred to action when you start pulling on that rope.
That deer EXPLODED. The second thing I learned is that pound for pound, a deer is a LOT stronger than a cow or a colt. A cow or a colt in that weight range I could fight down with a rope and with some dignity.. A deer -- no Chance. That thing ran and bucked and twisted and pulled. There was no controlling it and certainly no getting close to it. As it jerked me off my feet and started dragging me across the ground, it occurred to me that having a deer on a rope was not nearly as good an idea as I had originally imagined. The only upside is that they do not have as much stamina as many other animals.
A brief 10 minutes later, it was tired and not nearly as quick to jerk me off my feet and drag me when I managed to get up. It took me a few minutes to realize this, since I was mostly blinded by the blood flowing out of the big gash in my head. At that point, I had lost my taste for corn-fed venison. I just wanted to get that devil creature off the end of that rope.
I figured if I just let it go with the rope hanging around its neck, it would likely die slow and painfully somewhere. At the time, there was no love at all between me and that deer. At that moment, I hated the thing, and I would venture a guess that the feeling was mutual. Despite the gash in my head and the several large knots where I had cleverly arrested the deer's momentum by bracing my head against various large rocks as it dragged me across the ground, I could still think clearly enough to recognize that there was a small chance that I shared some tiny amount of responsibility for the situation we were in. I didn't want the deer to have to suffer a slow death, so I managed to get it lined back up in between my truck and the feeder a little trap I had set before hand...kind of like a squeeze chute. I got it to back in there and I started moving up so I could get my rope back.
Did you know that deer bite?
They do! I never in a million years would have thought that a deer would bite somebody, so I was very surprised when . I reached up there to grab that rope and the deer grabbed hold of my wrist. Now, when a deer bites you, it is not like being bit by a horse where they just bite you and slide off to then let go.
A deer bites you and shakes its head--almost like a pit bull. They bite HARD and it hurts.
The proper thing to do when a deer bites you is probably to freeze and draw back slowly. I tried screaming and shaking instead. My method was ineffective.
It seems like the deer was biting and shaking for several minutes, but it was likely only several seconds. I, being smarter than a deer (though you may be questioning that claim by now), tricked it. While I kept it busy tearing the tendons out of my right arm, I reached up with my left hand and pulled that rope loose.
That was when I got my final lesson in deer behavior for the day.
Deer will strike at you with their front feet. They rear right up on their back feet and strike right about head and shoulder level, and their hooves are surprisingly sharp... I learned a long time ago that, when an animal -like a horse --strikes at you with their hooves and you can't get away easily, the best thing to do is try to make a loud noise and make an aggressive move towards the animal. This will usually cause them to back down a bit so you can escape.
This was not a horse. This was a deer, so obviously, such trickery would not work.. In the course of a millisecond, I devised a different strategy. I screamed like a woman and tried to turn and run. The reason I had always been told NOT to try to turn and run from a horse that paws at you is that there is a good chance that it will hit you in the back of the head. Deer may not be so different from horses after all, besides being twice as strong and 3 times as evil, because the second I turned to run, it hit me right in the back of the head and knocked me down.
Now, when a deer paws at you and knocks you down, it does not immediately leave I suspect it does not recognize that the danger has passed. What they do instead is paw your back and jump up and down on you while you are laying there crying like a little girl and covering your head.
I finally managed to crawl under the truck and the deer went away. So now I know why when people go deer hunting they bring a rifle with a scope......to sort of even the odds!!
All these events are true so help me God...
An Educated Farmer
4498.6. Behind the scenes at the secret deer planning workshop
by solonjoe3, 02/09/11 9:23 AM
Re: Friends, you gotta read. PB by butdad, 02/09/11 9:23 AM
Stanek: I’ve asked White Buffalo to come and present their comprehensive management plan for our review. But before I give them the floor, let me say a few things first. You guys are driving me crazy. Save the deer. Kill the deer. Captive bolts. Birth control. Catch and release. Crossbows. Introduce wolves. And now there is even talk of lassoing deer and raising them like livestock. We need you guys to shut up.
We had a perfectly good plan with the sharpshooters and you shut it down. Now it is going to cost us a lot more to start it back up. This is bad planning. Worse still, all the crazies are going to show up at meetings and start calling everybody Bambi killers. That is no way to run a city. We professionals are supposed to make all decisions in secret and you political guys are supposed to pass them on the consent agenda. What were you people thinking?
McDrucker: I’m sorry, this one is mainly on me. I shouldn’t have pulled the program for year. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Frankland: That’s the problem with you elected officials. You think you can make decision on your own. Let us professionals do the deciding. I’m shocked after all the years of training you had under Patton you would come out and make such a rookie mistake. It’s going to cost all of us.
Weber: Speaking in financial terms, your mistake was expensive. By skipping a year, the extra cost is going to cut into the Christmas party fund. Instead of Champagne we may have to make do with Hawaiian punch and Everclear.
Pelunis: I warned her. But would she listen no? She just had a Kraus moment. Couldn’t keep her big mouth shut.
McDrucker: Ok, ok everybody. I learned my lesson. I won’t make any more decisions. So what do we do?
Stanek: We hire white buffalo back, that’s what we do. And we shut up about the crossbows.
Russo: Crossbows are cheaper.
Stanek: Look buddy, I don’t tell you how to do your job, so stop telling us how to do ours. Crossbows mean public debate. WE DON’T LIKE PUBLIC DEBATE. It makes folks start asking questions and I want to keep my city car. So just sit on your hands and let us tell you how to vote, ok?
Russo: Ok.
Richmond: I don’t see why we can’t discuss it.
Lobe: Lady, I don’t know how the heck you got appointed, but it was obviously a mistake. Either you play ball or nobody is going to pick up your trash for the next six months.
Frankland: And I’ll have more inspectors at your house than you can shake a stick at.
Stanek: Ok. White Buffalo, you have the floor.
Here's what started it...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=37202
4498. Friends, you gotta read. PB
by butdad, 02/08/11 7:21 PM
I figured a few folks would enjoy a laugh.
Why we shoot deer in the wild
(A letter from someone who wants to remain anonymous, who farms, writes well and actually tried this).
I had this idea that I could rope a deer, put it in a stall, feed it up on corn for a couple of weeks, then kill it and eat it. The first step in this adventure was getting a deer. I figured that, since they congregate at my cattle feeder and do not seem to have much fear of me when we are there (a bold one will sometimes come right up and sniff at the bags of feed while I am in the back of the truck not 4 feet away), it should not be difficult to rope one, get up to it and toss a bag over its head (to calm it down) then hog tie it and transport it home.
I filled the cattle feeder then hid down at the end with my rope. The cattle, having seen the roping thing before, stayed well back.. They were not having any of it. After about 20 minutes, my deer showed up -- 3 of them. I picked out a likely looking one, stepped out from the end of the feeder, and threw my rope.
The deer just stood there and stared at me. I wrapped the rope around my waist and twisted the end so I would have a good hold.
The deer still just stood and stared at me, but you could tell it was mildly concerned about the whole rope situation. I took a step towards it, it took a step away. I put a little tension on the rope .., and then received an education. The first thing that I learned is that, while a deer may just stand there looking at you funny while you rope it, they are spurred to action when you start pulling on that rope.
That deer EXPLODED. The second thing I learned is that pound for pound, a deer is a LOT stronger than a cow or a colt. A cow or a colt in that weight range I could fight down with a rope and with some dignity.. A deer -- no Chance. That thing ran and bucked and twisted and pulled. There was no controlling it and certainly no getting close to it. As it jerked me off my feet and started dragging me across the ground, it occurred to me that having a deer on a rope was not nearly as good an idea as I had originally imagined. The only upside is that they do not have as much stamina as many other animals.
A brief 10 minutes later, it was tired and not nearly as quick to jerk me off my feet and drag me when I managed to get up. It took me a few minutes to realize this, since I was mostly blinded by the blood flowing out of the big gash in my head. At that point, I had lost my taste for corn-fed venison. I just wanted to get that devil creature off the end of that rope.
I figured if I just let it go with the rope hanging around its neck, it would likely die slow and painfully somewhere. At the time, there was no love at all between me and that deer. At that moment, I hated the thing, and I would venture a guess that the feeling was mutual. Despite the gash in my head and the several large knots where I had cleverly arrested the deer's momentum by bracing my head against various large rocks as it dragged me across the ground, I could still think clearly enough to recognize that there was a small chance that I shared some tiny amount of responsibility for the situation we were in. I didn't want the deer to have to suffer a slow death, so I managed to get it lined back up in between my truck and the feeder a little trap I had set before hand...kind of like a squeeze chute. I got it to back in there and I started moving up so I could get my rope back.
Did you know that deer bite?
They do! I never in a million years would have thought that a deer would bite somebody, so I was very surprised when . I reached up there to grab that rope and the deer grabbed hold of my wrist. Now, when a deer bites you, it is not like being bit by a horse where they just bite you and slide off to then let go.
A deer bites you and shakes its head--almost like a pit bull. They bite HARD and it hurts.
The proper thing to do when a deer bites you is probably to freeze and draw back slowly. I tried screaming and shaking instead. My method was ineffective.
It seems like the deer was biting and shaking for several minutes, but it was likely only several seconds. I, being smarter than a deer (though you may be questioning that claim by now), tricked it. While I kept it busy tearing the tendons out of my right arm, I reached up with my left hand and pulled that rope loose.
That was when I got my final lesson in deer behavior for the day.
Deer will strike at you with their front feet. They rear right up on their back feet and strike right about head and shoulder level, and their hooves are surprisingly sharp... I learned a long time ago that, when an animal -like a horse --strikes at you with their hooves and you can't get away easily, the best thing to do is try to make a loud noise and make an aggressive move towards the animal. This will usually cause them to back down a bit so you can escape.
This was not a horse. This was a deer, so obviously, such trickery would not work.. In the course of a millisecond, I devised a different strategy. I screamed like a woman and tried to turn and run. The reason I had always been told NOT to try to turn and run from a horse that paws at you is that there is a good chance that it will hit you in the back of the head. Deer may not be so different from horses after all, besides being twice as strong and 3 times as evil, because the second I turned to run, it hit me right in the back of the head and knocked me down.
Now, when a deer paws at you and knocks you down, it does not immediately leave I suspect it does not recognize that the danger has passed. What they do instead is paw your back and jump up and down on you while you are laying there crying like a little girl and covering your head.
I finally managed to crawl under the truck and the deer went away. So now I know why when people go deer hunting they bring a rifle with a scope......to sort of even the odds!!
All these events are true so help me God...
An Educated Farmer
Friday, March 25, 2011
Two Days Makes a Difference
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?extlink?artid=38106
4594.
Two Days Makes a Difference
by SolonDeer, 03/20/11 1:02 AMIn the Solon Times - Despite 'sticker shock' aerial deer count planned 03/16/2011
http://www.chagrinvalleytimes.com/NC/0/2903.html
Councilman William I. Russo said the aerial count "is something that's needed just to make sure the deer count has grown. "If there is no increase in deer count, then there is no justification for doing anything," he said
Yet on 03/18 Russo along with the rest of council voted to proceed with the deer management plan without this count! What a difference two days makes!
Apparently the week started with Russo sure the aerial study would pass, who would even know about the secret last minute meeting early Friday morning.
Well the Patch was on it and blew the whistle: http://bit.ly/hh50a7 which drew lots of comments and an update immediately after the meeting. Hmmm...
http://solondeer.blogspot.com/2011/03/news-mar-2011.html
http://solondeer.com/
http://www.chagrinvalleytimes.com/NC/0/2903.html
Councilman William I. Russo said the aerial count "is something that's needed just to make sure the deer count has grown. "If there is no increase in deer count, then there is no justification for doing anything," he said
Yet on 03/18 Russo along with the rest of council voted to proceed with the deer management plan without this count! What a difference two days makes!
Apparently the week started with Russo sure the aerial study would pass, who would even know about the secret last minute meeting early Friday morning.
Well the Patch was on it and blew the whistle: http://bit.ly/hh50a7 which drew lots of comments and an update immediately after the meeting. Hmmm...
http://solondeer.blogspot.com/2011/03/news-mar-2011.html
http://solondeer.com/
History Lesson
4576.2.
Re: Deer Management by SolonDeer, 03/11/11 3:09 PM
...HISTORY LESSON...
by frankbam, 03/11/11 3:09 PMRe: Deer Management by SolonDeer, 03/11/11 3:09 PM
..in the old west men drove horse and wagon around hawking miracle cures..that probably contained booze and laudanum...today they drive an SUV, make power point presentations, selling streighter lights, proper garden plantings and deer condoms...GO FIGURE..
4576.2.1.
Or more realistically
by SolonDeer, 03/11/11 6:29 PMRe: Deer Management by SolonDeer, 03/11/11 6:29 PM
and relavent to the Wed Safety Meeting, a Hunter goes to the library, learns powerpoint and then comes to tell us that the ONLY solution is more hunting. Sure there's rebound, all the more reason to hunt more. Is it effective? Sure as long as you keep ponying up $200K per year.
Oh by the way where does Scott Peters get most of his funding - HUNTING LICENCES. And here's hunting apologist Russo saying "well you have to get your funding from somewhere".
Can you spell "conflict of interest", apparently not.
Talk about snake oil salesmen, who would buy that crap, most of Solon I guess. Can you pay my share of the $200K every year, because I'm just not that gullible.
Oh by the way where does Scott Peters get most of his funding - HUNTING LICENCES. And here's hunting apologist Russo saying "well you have to get your funding from somewhere".
Can you spell "conflict of interest", apparently not.
Talk about snake oil salesmen, who would buy that crap, most of Solon I guess. Can you pay my share of the $200K every year, because I'm just not that gullible.
Saturday, March 19, 2011
Solon Joe's
4583. Executive session?
by solonjoe3, 03/14/11 9:12 AM
Vice Mayor Krooks: ... Ok, that bring us to deer culling. Councilman Ramone has an interesting idea about using croquet mallets.
Councilwoman VeryRichMond: Mallets? You can’t be serious about croquet mallets?
Councilman Ramone: One hit on the noggin and they are out like a light. What could be more humane? Besides they are rats.
Vice Mayor Krooks: Let’s not debate how we kill them. Let’s debate how many we should kill. Let’s not even debate whether or not they are rats. Let’s instead talk about who to give the contract to and how they will make it worth our while.
Councilwoman VeryRichMond: Well, I surveyed my residents and they are opposed to croquet mallets 87% to 46%-- that is, if I don’t count all people who wanted to answer the survey different than me. Totals can add up to more than 100% if you don’t use excel.
Councilwoman Meaningless: I’m just pleased as punch that you all invited me to these meetings. Is it time for me to abstain yet?
Councilman Moonbeam: We have the money in the capital budget, although as a recurring expense it really doesn’t belong on that ledger, but nevertheless the money is cooked in, so I say we spend it.
Councilman Peanuts: I don’t understand why we have to spend public dollars on things like this.
Councilman Moonbeam: As I’ve tried to explain to you, if we don’t spend all the money we take in, residents will expect us to give some of it back.
Mayor McDrucker: She serves at my pleasure. They all serve at my pleasure. I will not tolerate leaks.
Vice Mayor Krooks: White buffalo has a very attractive offer. Campaign donations, kickbacks, and free venison stew. I don’t see anybody topping that….
Councilwoman Meaningless: I abstain.
Mayor McDrucker: And how do we know Sally wasn’t one of the many leakers?
Councilwoman VeryRichMond: I suppose if we padded the mallets, they wouldn’t hurt as much….
Councilman Ramone: That’s what I was trying to tell you. Whack! One blow. They won’t feel a thing.
Councilwoman Meaningless: I abstain.
Councilman Moonbeam: How much do these mallets cost? We have to be sure to spend the entire budget.
by solonjoe3, 03/14/11 9:12 AM
Vice Mayor Krooks: ... Ok, that bring us to deer culling. Councilman Ramone has an interesting idea about using croquet mallets.
Councilwoman VeryRichMond: Mallets? You can’t be serious about croquet mallets?
Councilman Ramone: One hit on the noggin and they are out like a light. What could be more humane? Besides they are rats.
Vice Mayor Krooks: Let’s not debate how we kill them. Let’s debate how many we should kill. Let’s not even debate whether or not they are rats. Let’s instead talk about who to give the contract to and how they will make it worth our while.
Councilwoman VeryRichMond: Well, I surveyed my residents and they are opposed to croquet mallets 87% to 46%-- that is, if I don’t count all people who wanted to answer the survey different than me. Totals can add up to more than 100% if you don’t use excel.
Councilwoman Meaningless: I’m just pleased as punch that you all invited me to these meetings. Is it time for me to abstain yet?
Councilman Moonbeam: We have the money in the capital budget, although as a recurring expense it really doesn’t belong on that ledger, but nevertheless the money is cooked in, so I say we spend it.
Councilman Peanuts: I don’t understand why we have to spend public dollars on things like this.
Councilman Moonbeam: As I’ve tried to explain to you, if we don’t spend all the money we take in, residents will expect us to give some of it back.
Mayor McDrucker: She serves at my pleasure. They all serve at my pleasure. I will not tolerate leaks.
Vice Mayor Krooks: White buffalo has a very attractive offer. Campaign donations, kickbacks, and free venison stew. I don’t see anybody topping that….
Councilwoman Meaningless: I abstain.
Mayor McDrucker: And how do we know Sally wasn’t one of the many leakers?
Councilwoman VeryRichMond: I suppose if we padded the mallets, they wouldn’t hurt as much….
Councilman Ramone: That’s what I was trying to tell you. Whack! One blow. They won’t feel a thing.
Councilwoman Meaningless: I abstain.
Councilman Moonbeam: How much do these mallets cost? We have to be sure to spend the entire budget.
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