Tuesday, November 1, 2011

What's really practical?


by SolonPol, 11/01/11 11:55 AM
Biker has trouble seeing the evidence, makes a few faulty assumptions and deems culling to be the only practical method. I see the same old plan with a new comprehensive label so I see this lazy misleading form of local govt as not pracitical. No offense to Biker, I'm sure he isn't meaning to support midocrity, he just likes his tomatoes, someone should get him some deer netting and a dog.

Since Biker's recent arguments are buried so deep in the thread, let me repeat them here and point out a few things!


Biker said "4900. Not practical by SolonBiker, 11/01/11 2:13 AM Re: ..BIG BUCK'S..!!.. by bubbaburgers, 11/01/11 2:13 AM

The light system seems to require loud and unpleasant artificial screeching noises. Maybe that works out in the middle of Montana ... but I'm guessing people in Solon would not want to line all our roads with loud screeching noises to save a few deer. "

Where did you get this false info / assumption? At the deer expo that you and no one from the local govt attended, they had one of these devices. The older version would not be heard inside a home or over traffic noise. The new version was barely audible to most people in a quiet auditorum.

Biker said "As for the contraception, I have yet to see evidence it's practical. I see a smattering of stories. Some say 80% effective in year 1, but down to below 50% effective in year 2. Then the stories say you need to capture the deer to administer, you need to tag the deer. So you get a per deer cost of $1,000 and a questionable to diminishing return in the out years. And an ongoing program and more expense than what we're talking about."

Again, not sure where he got his info, but apparently it wasn't the same info I provided him that he requested. The old method was to capture, the new method is to dart them, no more complicated than sharpshooting and no more expensive.


Alternative methods work on all the deer, killing only works on those that are killed. You kill a deer, the other deer have more fawns at a higher rate because there is less competition for food. You dart a deer and they don't have fawns no matter how much food there is.

Biker says "Until I see clear cut evidence that these alternative "comprehensive" methods can work, and do so effectively, I'd rather see Solon resume culling."

Actually wrong word there, should have used "non-lethal". The problem with the word "comprehensive" is that the city is using it on the same old killing plan, don't change the name, change the plan.

We have a circular argument here, there is convincing evidence that you won't see, so you won't be convinced until you see it here in Solon, and because the city is passing off the same old plan under a new name you won't see it here. Pass Issue 94 and you'll force them to get creative, to try new things, and you will be pleasently surprised that we, like other even more progressive cities, can have our deer, and our cars and our tomatoes.

Biker says "If -- a few years from now -- there's a body of evidence saying we can get the same results (fewer deer, fewer accidents, less devastated ecosystem) at a lower cost without culling ... then by all means, we can adjust. "

There will never be a local body of evidence, this killing plan, if allowed to start, will never ever stop, it would not have stopped if the city realized how much flack they'd recieve in restarting. The city may be many things, but they aren't stone cold dumb, they will never repeat tha mistake of stopping the killing.

Biker said " But right now, that's just a fairy tale, so I stick with my desire to move forward on the culling."

We're not "moving forward", we're repeating failed history and then we'll wonder why we didn't get different results. "Moving forward" would be to truly have a "comprehensive" plan, not the same old plan with a new name.

Stop the insanity, raise the bar, force the city to think, save money, vote YES on 94!

Saturday, October 29, 2011

No One Does What Solon Does


No One Does What Solon Does

by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:55 AM 
Re: Vote YES on Issue 94 by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:55 AM
NO ONE, not even the MetroParks. They don't overpay "professional" killers $500+ per deer. They have their own rangers do the shooting. It isn't free, but it isn't outrageously expensive either.

Metroparks can "hunt" because they have very large tracts of land, Solon DOESN'T. Solon has to have cops babysit the (paid or unpaid) hunters, MetroParks uses more rangers.

Some nearby cities just do hunting. It's cheaper (NOT FREE), but they have much larger lot sizes than Solon does, so they aren't subjected to the large risks that Solon is.

Strike one, two, and three. NOT!


Strike one, two, and three. NOT!

by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:43 AM 
Re: Vote YES on Issue 94 by SolonPol, 10/29/11 3:43 AM
SolonPol writes: "Solon has refused to consider non-lethal methods, see upcoming post. With 5 years of failure with lethal methods, its time to force the city to into a different direction." 

SolonBiker writes "I have to disagree with this. Non-lethal has never been proven to work or be cost effective. We've seen a parade of ludicrous money pits paraded before us. None of them work. From street reflectors to contraception to food parks for deer. Strike one, two, and three." 

0) It's never been proven because the city has REFUSED to try. Other's have tried and succeeded. Issue 94 changes that. 

1) Street reflectors have been proven to work in Montana against huge herds of deer and elk. So why don't they work in Solon? Because they were designed to fail. They are designed to be installed in a continuous stretch to discourage deer from crossing the road. In Solon they were installed with 500 foot gaps to insure that the deer would cross the road nearby the reflectors. Installing them properly would prevent ALL the deer from crossing the road when cars drive by. 

2) Contraception DOES WORK, but we can't use it because the hunting license funded ODOW won't allow us to use it. That isn't a strike against deer proponents, its a strike against the hunters who demand an ever growing supply of "game". 

3) Food Parks, like reflectors, WOULD change deer behavior. The city chose to NOT EVEN TRY because the ODOW wouldn't allow them to KILL if they did this. 

My statement stands as correct - "Solon has refused to consider non-lethal methods"

Joe's favorite point


Joe's favorite point

by SolonPol, 10/27/11 3:56 AM
is that voting YES on 94 will stick it in the eye of city council and administration.

While that may sound a bit funny, there are actually serious reasons to do just that. The city has long been criticized for its myopic, KILL KILL KILL strategy and so decided to "fix it." Not by actually fixing it, but by "spinning" propaganda and producing a sham "comphrenesive" plan.

The city CLAIMS they are offering non-lethal alternatives, then in Oct, they admitted that it was the homeowner responsibility to implement these, the city could only KILL.

That isn't true, either because the city thought the public was dumb enough to swallow a sham plan with the title of "comphrehensive" or they didn't THINK.

This was pointed out to the city on multiple occasions and they continued to dig their heals in, they were sticking to their "story".

So if the public really is DUMB ENOUGH to swallow this sh-t, then you can swallow it, but if you are like me, someone who doesn't like the taste, who doesn't like to be lied to, who wants the city to THINK, then join me in demanding that the city do just that by voting YES on 94.

And oh yeah, it sticks it in their eye.

Here are some numbers for you


Here are some numbers for you.

by walley, 10/27/11 3:38 PM 
Re: The numbers by SolonBiker, 10/27/11 3:38 PM

In 2005, the first year for culling, 602 deer were killed. Of the 602 deer, 191 were under a year of age, I believe they’re called fawns. 87 deer were under two years of age, 91 were under 3 years, 74 were under 4 years, 159 were 4 years or older.

After being killed, the Does were butchered and the fetuses were counted. Among the fawns, 5 were carrying a single fetus and 2 were carrying twins. Among the yearlings 24 were carrying a single fetus and 22 were carrying twins. Among the adults, 49 were carrying a single fetus and 204 were carrying twins.

These are facts obtained through an FOI request of the City’s records, no exaggeration, no hyperbole, just the numbers. Solon, and it’s contractor were killing deer barely old enough to know what’s going on and killing pregnant Does and then counting fetuses. HOW MORBID IS THAT! Is that what you want us to be known for? Is it too much to ask people to drive more carefully, provide some screening for their picture windows and maybe invest in some deer netting for their tomato plants?

Tuesday, October 25, 2011

Captive Bolt

The deer management plan that the city of Solon has already adopted includes three methods of killing deer. One particularly cruel method is the practice of killing deer by use of captive bolt, also referred to as “Trap and Euthanasia.” I think the people of Solon need to be aware that the use of captive bolt is not as benign as the term implies. In fact, the use of this method of killing deer is, by all definitions, quite violent. Captive bolt is used in backyards which are too small to shoot in – any backyard, maybe your neighbor's.

A deer is lured into a cage with food. The cage is of a size that the deer can move about. Once inside, the captive bolt operator tries to shoot a bolt from a gun into the head of the deer. Now, the deer is not stationary. This is not like a meat processor, like those supporting it would like you to believe. The deer is well aware of what someone is trying to do to it. And with the deer thrashing about, the bolt operator frequently misses [comma?] sending the bolt into the animal’s eye or jaw.

I’ve spoken with people who have witnessed this act. The animals writhe in pain, and although deer don’t technically scream, they make a guttural vocalization of terror that is about as close as you can get.

Do you really endorse this type of “euthanasia” in our backyards? In Solon? It’s time to stop this barbaric behavior. Vote Yes on Issue 94.

-- Mel

Wednesday, October 19, 2011

4883. Issue 94
by westpettiboner, 10/19/11 3:01 PM

Let us look at this from a different angle. We pay for police to keep crime down every year. We pay for fire fighters to put out fires every year. If we eliminated the police and fire departments because crime and fires are low in Solon and then in the following years when they "rebounded" would we say the money in previous years was wasted ?

We need to vote no on this to keep some type of culling and /or hunting open as an option. I also agree we need to find a cheaper way to do it. But banning lethal options for pie in the sky light reflectors that won't last past the first snow plow and oh by the way even when in prime condition only work at night.

4883.1. Missing Points
by SolonPol, 10/19/11 4:12 PM
Re: Issue 94 by westpettiboner, 10/19/11 4:12 PM

First, EVERYONE has police and fire, but NO ONE has a $160K / yr killing program. Let's not pretend that everyone does and that somehow deer killing is a standard city service, IT ISN'T! Solon is mentioned all over Ohio as being unique with this NO ONE has spent a million dollars as we are approaching this year in this fool hardy endeavor.

So why are we unique in having a deer killing program?

First, Solonites can't drive. I've seen it time and again on the BB Rd project, I just got off the phone with my next door neighbor who nearly got hit, but they plowed into the back of a construction vehicle with flashing strobe lights first. That car was just towed away. So the problem is more about distracted drivers, kill the deer and they are going to hit something else.

Second, Solonites just LOVE their landscaping, you'd think they could plant things deer don't eat, and some people are even smart enough to grow things they do eat and still not have them eat it by the way they protect their garden. Can we really blow six digits a year to protect the ignorant gardener and landscaper? For a tiny fraction of that we can bring in experts who will educate people in deer proof gardening and solve that problem.

Third, it's no secret that many people at city hall are recreational hunters and would love to hunt here rather than in southern Ohio. Why should taxpayers support a six digit annual recreational program for a small portion of the population? As Joe would say the precedent is set, we have subsidized Opera, I just can't figure out why Joe is voting for subsidized recreational hunting.

Fourth, it's NOT about having a culling/hunting option. First it isn't an option, they will be spending a million dollars every 6 years. That's a serious financial commitment. Second they have no non-killing options that make sense. They have none, they aren't interested in having any. The city is ignoring very valid alternative techniques with their tunnel vision, SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT. All the city did is put lipstick on the same old pig and passed it off as a "Comprehensive" Deer Mgt Plan, by adding crossbows to expensive shooters.

Fifth, Strieter Lites are NOT the only solution, its one of many. https://sites.google.com/site/solondeerdotcom/SolonDeer-non-lethal-alternatives

Stay tuned to http://SolonDeer.org/ and http://solondeer.blogspot.com/ for an upcoming article on just what the city can do if they want to be truly comprehensive.

Why is NO ONE NEARBY spending $160K per year? Because none of them are as stupid or as wasteful as Solon!

Can we all agree on that?

And once we agree, how do we fix it? They've been told to be comprehensive and they were too stubborn and set on killing to do anything but write an empty document that offered more of the same expensive, inefficient, killing only programs.

There's only one way to get through to people who are that stubborn, take all their weapons away and force them to THINK!

That's what I'm going to do, VOTE YES on Issue 94 and tell city hall to THINK!

Originally published here.

Friday, October 14, 2011

Solon Suns Editorial Recomendation

Solon Sun keeps up its poor reputation for uninfomred editorializing with its recent Oct 13th endorsement to vote "NO on Issue 94 in Solon"...  Here is their editorial along with the corrections in red.

"What happens when you replace logic with emotion?"
Who are they talking about?  They think they are talking about deer proponents, but it is the culling proponents who are being emotional and moving forward despite not having the numbers of deer and DVAs as required in their new Deer Mgt Plan, see the How Many? post.
You get an ill-conceived ballot measure such as the Deer Preservation Act.
When the elected Solon officials consistently ignore the will of many residents to make use of modern methods, humane, and technology rather than slaughtering animals, then you get the voters exercising their constructional rights to do what their elected leaders failed to do.
Voters need to realize how harmful this would be to the community and say NO to Issue 94.
Voters need to realize that current methods are an expensive failure with its own set of serious safety risks and voting YES on Issue 94 is the only way to force elected officials to seek more effective, humane methods.
Proponents of the Deer Preservation Act cite the high costs incurred by the city through culling as a main argument against lethal methods to control the deer population.  Yes, it has cost Solon roughly $1 million over several years,
High costs are one of the arguments and it is an objective factual argument, where is the emotionalism the editor falsely accuses the proponents of?
but when the culling was done, the deer population was reduced to a manageable level.
Where is the evidence to support this subjective conclusion?  What is a "manageable level?"
That drastically reduced the number of car-deer crashes [DVAs] in the city, which also reduced the total personal expense to drivers resulting from these crashes.
Killing deer allows the survivors to cross the road resulting in crashes.  DVA determents, a non-lethal, humane, effective, and cheaper method, prevents ALL deer from crossing the road when oncoming traffic approaches. 
Passage of Issue 94 would prohibit the city from doing any sort of culling to control the deer population.
This will force the city for the first time in 7 years to seriously consider more effective, less costly, humane solutions that they have not considered (other than lip service) to date.
This will cause the number of deer to soar over 1,000, meaning more deer will be jumping into our roads.
Where did this number come from?  No count of deer or DVA's was done this year before the decision was made to go forward with killing.  This also does not take into account that culling causes rebound effect requiring more killing to prevent a "soaring" population.
Issue 94 proponents claim culling is inhumane,
IT IS!  And the new killing methods in the Deer Mgt Plan, bow hunting and captive bolt are even more cruel and inhumane.
but is it humane to have a rapidly growing deer population starving to death because there is only so much foliage to go around?
The facts and even the reports from Solon's former killing agents don't bear out this emotional accusation.
We don't think so.
The Editors didn't think period, they simply repeated city propaganda without interviewing or analyzing the opposing point of view, a poor excuse for journalism.

Don't fall for emotional, city propaganda, or phony logic, VOTE YES on Issue 94, to stop this needless wasteful, inhumane fool's errand of endless killing.

Sunday, October 9, 2011

True Nature of Solon's Deer Plan

To: Solon Times <editor@chagrinvalleytimes.com>
Subject: Letter to the editor

The true nature of Solon’s “Comprehensive Deer Management Plan”  has finally come to light.  At the close of the Council Meeting on October 3rd, Councilman Russo once again questioned Mr. Stanek on the deer management program, asking what non-lethal options existed and who would be responsible for carrying them out.  Mr. Stanek replied and Councilman Russo confirmed that the burden of the non-lethal management methods was going to be placed on the shoulders of the private property owner.  Council and the administration have ignored obvious opportunities to support, or even engage in a discussion of non-lethal methods, leaving it to private citizens to provide a Work Shop on coping with deer.  Despite the fact that the Deer Workshop was free and open to all, conspicuous by their absence were any members of the city council or administration.  It would seem, that the City is going to stay the course with the same old lethal program.  A great deal of time and effort has been put into constructing and justifying the lethal programs, while non-lethal methods have been given nothing more than lip service, excuses as to why they won’t work, and then thrown to the private homeowner to facilitate.  I’m not saying that the homeowner is not a legitimate stakeholder in this issue, but the City has simply done a “Pontius Pilot” here and said to everyone, “you’re on your own.”

The whole idea of “deer management” is a bit absurd.  You can’t manage wildlife.  You can manage livestock, but only because you control every aspect of it’s life.  You control where it lives, where and what it eats, when and if it reproduces and how long it lives.  The same can’t be said for wildlife.  Oh sure, you can send hunters into the woods to take pot shots at the animals, but that’s not management, that’s recreation.  You can throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at the problem trying to kill as many as you can, but they keep coming back.  An interesting concept was brought up by a Mr. Naegle of Urban Deer Solutions when he was here to give his presentation on Deer Parks.  He used the term “manipulate” in his discussions about deer.  You don’t manage deer, you manipulate them in a manner to reduce the impact they have in a given area.  By encouraging the deer to congregate in an area where they are not going to be a problem, you minimize the social and environmental impact on areas where they are not welcome.  While deer parks are not practical in Solon due to a lack of natural predators, the manipulation concept is the very heart of non-lethal management.  If you don’t want the deer on your property, take steps to discourage them from visiting.

Heinz Knall

Friday, September 30, 2011

Hunting Valley wants to increase hunting

The Solon Sun recently reported "Hunting Valley ponders reducing acreage for deer hunting".

To summarize:

  • Council wants to reduce minimum hunting areas from 10 acres to 5 acres.
  • Question asked about two largest property which don't allow hunting
  • 91 hunters are waiting to hunt on 41 properties
  • One person raised the question "what happens about wounded deer running off property"

The whole article is here.

Hudson considering hunting


Noticed this tweet, if you have more details, please email SolonDeer at gmail dot com.

Tell  to say NO to Ordinance No. 11-105 STOP   in    

From the Hudson Council Agenda Sept 21st


Monday, August 15, 2011

Solon Sun Aug Editorial

The the Solon Sun editorial is here, Solon Patch asked for comments on the Solon Sun's editorial here.

This editorial was so uninformed that Councilman Russo took an opportunity to "correct" it.  The editorial recommended that Contraception be used with Culling.  A simple reading of the plan or following this issue at all would yield the answer that Contraception is not legal in Ohio.  The ODOW regulates is use and has no incentive to allow it as it could reduce hunting.

It has other factual errors too.

It states that the city would "hire experienced hunters", again reading the plan you can see that the city is hiring sharpshooters, but not paying hunters to kill.  On one hand we hear that the hunters will be strongly regulated, on the other we hear that the USDA feels that we are "over regulating" so a sentence was added to the version of the plan included in the legislation (but not posted on the web) that we'd follow ODOW rules, which are more lax than those first proposed.

They "applaud" the city's developing a "comprehensive" plan, yet reading it you quickly see all the non-lethal methods are dismissed.

They say the city's plan could be "doomed" if voters pass the Deer Preservation Act.  They don't seem to be very aware of the act or the plan.

They mention, in a patronizing tone, that no one wants to see "Bambi" killed, this rhetoric doesn't recognize the many reasons that the plan makes no sense, namely

  1. Necessity - how is it determined that we have "too many". 
  2. Effectiveness - rebound and migration from neighboring cities makes any killing program a fool's errand. 
  3. Cost - don't we have better ways of spending $200K per year?
That's three logical reasons that have nothing to do with the beauty of the creature.  Deer advocates have real reasons for not wanting the city to continue its failed program, and its not a Disney movie.

Friday, June 10, 2011

Deer Management in early June

Posted as Deer Management on the Solon Forum
by SolonDeer, 06/08/11 12:21 AM

Safety recommends a deer plan without any cost attached. Are we so rich that we don't have to ask the price? We have $150K budgeted this year for a plan, sight unseen.

How long does it take to figure out the cost? We did it for 5 years. They started planning this last Oct, but Stanek needs 2 more weeks to finalize the costs.

Russo suggested citizens look to Solon's website for answers to deer issues. Citizens who'd like a fuller picture of these issues should add the following sites to their reading list:

http://SolonDeer.org/ for an introduction,

http://SolonDeer.blogspot.com/ for in-depth articles and

http://SolonDeer.com/ to learn how to get involved.

Russo also felt a need to correct citizen "mis-statements" but not his own when he stated that the hunting would be on city land, but App 1 C, pg 14, 2nd section talks about lands used with no such restriction. While Russo is quick to complain of other's misstatements, his own record of misstatements is poor.

News: June 2011

Here is a sample of news stories on Solon's Deer Management in June 2011

Solon Patch

On the Agenda: Rental Inspections, Deer Management on Solon Council Agenda - 6/6/11

With Deer Population Surging, Solon Officials Will Decide How Many to Kill - 6/7/11

Solon Times

Comprehensive deer-management plan recommended - 6/6/11

Bowhunting gets high marks in nearby villages - 6/15/11
For a counterpoint, see how Middleburg Hts residents are upset at hunting in their neighborhood.

Solon Sun

Solon to have figures in 10 days for new deer management program - 6/7/11


Back to Main Site

Tuesday, May 24, 2011

News: May 2011

For a detailed discussion of the deer management plan click here.

Here is a sample of news stories on Solon's Deer Management in May 2011

Solon Patch
Deer Management Options Expected at Tonight's Safety Meeting - 5/11

Deer Plan Provides Lethal Options, But Decision Rests With City Council - 5/11

See Solon Times Live Tweeting here.

Solon Times
Lethal methods favored for deer control - 5/18

Solon Sun
Solon lawmakers will consider lethal, non-lethal methods to control deer population - 5/19


Back to Main Site

Solon Patch LIVE Coverage

Here are the live tweets from the SolonPatch Twitter Feed, newest first. He used hashtag #deer for this coverage.

Follow the SolonPatch for the latest info...

Deer discussion over. Next step: Stanek will talk with USDA about cost of that agency managing deer culling and other programs. #deer

Safety committee votes to remove deer park from management plan. #deer

Russo wants to know how much USDA would charge to run program for #Solon. #deer

USDA could run the deer management program for #Solon. #deer

Kraus is against bow hunting. #deer

Kraus: "It's all about safety." #deer

Councilman Kraus believes in the streiter reflector lights and fencing as good options. #deer

We maybe can find a cheaper sharpshooting company, Stanek said. The last company, White Buffalo, was the "Cadillac" of sharpshooters #deer

Deer vs. car accidents: It's happened everywhere in #Solon, Stanek says. #deer

While sharpshooting is expensive, putting that with crossbow hunting will lower the cost per deer. #deer

Councilman Bill Russo: "Nonlethal means, in terms of controlling the herd, is not practical reality." #deer

Solon should have 206-309 deer in its herd, Stanek says. "We are very far from that." #deer

Stanek on sharpshooting: "It was effective. No on can say it wasn't effective, but unfortunately it's expensive." #deer

Stanek eliminates deer park option: "In my view, trying to apply that technology to the city of Solon would be limited, very limited." #deer

Read a copy of #Solon's deer plan here. http://patch.com/A-hvmV #deer

The plan calls for lethal and nonlethal options. Thing is, Stanek says most of the nonlethal methods are not effective #deer

The question #Solon officials have to answer: what number of deer is acceptable? #deer

In 1970, there were about 17,000 deer in OH. Now there are 750,000. #deer

Public Works Commissioner Jim Stanek: #Solon realized deer population was increasing 4 or 5 months ago. #deer

Read about #Solon's deer plan. http://patch.com/A-hvmV

I've got a copy of Solon's deer management options, which include both lethal and non-lethal options. Article coming soon.  [published here]

#Solon gets deer management options tonight. Are lethal options on the table? Will hunting foes arrive en masse? http://patch.com/A-htnt

Friday, May 6, 2011

Solon Times Editorials

The editorial by Dave Lange meandered on both sides of the fence making the following points:

  • You don't need to be a Solon resident to weigh in on our deer debacles
  • Claims killing deer is less painful than a car accident with them, missing the point that it isn't an either or proposition
  • We kill other animals and eat their meat, why not deer?
  • That only vegetarians should sign the petition to stop inefficient and dangerous killing programs
  • He claims it wasn't urban sprawl, but unchecked deer population growth at fault for problems
  • People who plant tasty treats shouldn't be surprised they are eaten
  • Don't blame lack of predators, they've been gone for 50 years
  • Recognized that the deer were "brought back" to make hunting opportunities
  • Not a "hunting restriction" problem, we have one of the longest seasons and highest bag limits
  • Thinks we need more hunters, not more restrictions
  • Thinks both sides are guilty of "irresponsible scare tactics"
    • Hunters aren't dangerous
    • Rutting Deers aren't dangerous
    • Lyme disease just isn't a problem in North Eastern Ohio
Interesting that Dave mentioned Cheney.  On this post, I mentioned.
" Hunting isn't safe, never has been, never will be. From Vice President Cheney's famous hunting accident to the startling statistics -- According to the International Hunter Education Ass. approximately 1,000 people in the US and Canada are accidentally shot by hunters every year and just under a hundred of those accidents are fatalities. "
He said
" Finally, irresponsible scare tactics diminish both sides of this debate. You're much more likely to get shot by one of your relatives than by a hunter, including Dick Cheney. "
I can't vouch for Dave's relatives, but I don't believe this is the general case.

See the full editorial here or below.

Right under Dave's editorial is another that is more friendly toward deer, but had a long winded intro to get to this main point.
" For all its successes as a community and in spite of its intelligent citizenry and thoughtful leaders, Solon has not been able to solve its self-inflicted deer problem.  
It should be clear by now gunning down the deer or shooting arrows into them are not solutions, just the cause of other more dangerous problems. 
Perhaps it's time to consider living in peace with the deer by controlling any future growth in the city then educating its two-legged residents on how to coexist with the four-legged ones. All the other failed and ill-advised strategies should be filed forever under, "Only in Solon." "
See the full editorial here or below.

Friday, April 29, 2011

Killing deer still necessary, Solon officials insist


Ironically Councilman Russo said he "would not tolerate inaccurate statements" by the public, yet here he is doing what he won't tolerate.  Here's the news story in black, and comments in blue.

In researching the issue of deer management and consulting with experts on the topic,

Contacting only one sided experts doesn't qualify as "research".  Well qualified non-lethal experts, expressed interest in Solon and were ignored by the Councilman, xx.

Solon Councilman William I. Russo said last week he's trying to look at the entire issue objectively.

Odd coming from a person who demonstrates a very strong bias toward lethal options.

Mr. Russo, who chairs City Council's safety and public properties committee, said, "I've done a lot of research," including reading information from the Cleveland Metroparks and that of trained experts in the field.

This "research" specifically excluded all non-lethal alternatives but one, which he shot down.

The conclusion is that "you have to have a combination of options, and, unfortunately, they have to be lethal and nonlethal, which will include culling," he said. A complete nonlethal program simply won't work, he said.

How could he possibly know that since he ignored all non-lethal alternatives but one, which he shot down?

Mr. Russo's committee is to be presented with a comprehensive deer-management program from the city administration at its next meeting, May 11.

An administration that enjoys hunting and earlier this year tried to hurry through a bow hunting pilot for all the hunting enthusiasts on the city payroll.

The committee's recommendation based on that will be forwarded to City Council for consideration.

"In order to control our deer population and do it cost effectively, we need a combination of lethal and nonlethal methods," he said.

"Counts rise when hunting ceases, and to think the deer population will level off, I just can't see that," Mr. Russo said.

Mr Russo doesn't understand basic biology and forces of nature which ensure that all life (except human life) doesn't exceed the biological carrying capacity of the environment.

"From what the department of wildlife mentioned, how the deer population has exploded over last 30, 40 years because hunting has been restricted and natural predators have disappeared, if we are only using nonlethal, that population will only continue to grow."

Until it reaches the biological carrying capacity and it will level off as its done for millenia before Russo's junk science hit the scene.

In regards to Solon residents gathering signatures to put a referendum on the November ballot prohibiting lethal forms of deer management, Mr. Russo said, "In my mind, I think that would effectively tie the city's hands in trying to address any future issues as the deer population continues to grow and thrive.

It would ensure the safety of the citizens of Solon, the task that his committee is responsible for, discharging deadly weapons in the city does not enhance our safety.

"God forbid we have an outbreak of Lyme disease," he said. "We would have no method of controlling that.

Total hysteria and very inaccurate. Lyme disease is not a problem in Ohio, nor is it likely to be.  Again a basic understanding of Lyme disease would have you know that its origin is from small animals or rodents and if deer are not available, it will still spread.

"There's a mix of people from Solon and outside of Solon who are pushing the nonlethal issue, which is fine, but when residents of Solon take a look at this, they're tired of people who don't live in the city telling us what we should be doing."

Actually we're tired of uninformed politicians telling us what to do.  Apparently Mr. Russo wants to make your decisions for you.

Mr. Russo said it is his opinion that, if the city would allow crossbow hunting on city properties in remote areas where deer are present, "I want to stress that this is not people running around Solon with bows and arrows, but using a crossbows off a platform."

Actually its is.  The last group of "sharpshooters" were found to be handling firearms in an unsafe manner, it will be no different with hunters.

He said that method would reduce the overall cost of a deer-management program, recognizing that the cost of culling alone is very expensive. Hunting with a crossbow would essentially be free for the city in that hunters will pay for permit, he said.

He likely isn't factoring in the huge overhead of police overtime, administrative processing, and lawsuits, which all occurred last time.

Mr. Russo said he also is looking for the use of Strieter-Lites as part of the program. "You can't put them throughout the city but can target them in areas where we find deer congregating," he said.

Interesting, will they be doing it effectively this time, or is this just so they can say there is a non-lethal alternative.

A comprehensive program also has to involve some education on what types of plants and shrubs to plant, Mr. Russo said. "Those are going to have to be incorporated in anything we put together."

Yet, Mr. Russo ignored a national expert in this area, once again more lip service, and no actual interest if it doesn't involve killing them.

Public Works Director James S. Stanek, who is to present the options to the safety committee, said each one will need discussed.

So as to appear to be a "comprehensive plan".  They will discuss it on camera, while off camera they ignore non-lethal experts.

"If you want to mix lethal with nonlethal, we have to make sure what we would be using could be done that way," he said.

"On the face value of what we know about deer parks, they can't be used in lethal situations, at least where you will follow up and request a nuisance permit from the division of wildlife."

And if it doesn't allow lethal alternatives it won't be considered.  The main goal is clear, killing deer, a lucrative business, the only non-lethal methods to be considered must still allow killing even if the goal of reduced DVA and landscape damage is met by the non-lethal methods.

Hunting with a crossbow will be an option in selected areas, Mr. Stanek said. "There will be limits to some of these options where it makes sense it can be used.

Nice that they made this decision before all the options were discussed in public.

"We will lay out the options and then look at some of the areas and decide on what works where and what won't work where," Mr. Stanek said. "That collectively becomes your program." Once a plan is drawn up, it does not have to "be your plan forever," he said.

What this means, and we've seen it before, we'll do some non-lethal options to satisfy the public, but after they forget about it we'll move to all lethal.  They installed Strieter Lites, but left gaps to insure that DVAs would still occur.  Then they left them without basic maintenance, while spending nearly $200K per year to maintain the killing.

The debate on the issues has to stop, Mr. Stanek said. It has resulted in a lot of "negative energy and wasted resources," he said.

The debate is about wasting resources year after year on killing.  There are effective, cheaper, non-lethal methods that they won't try by themselves, because once they proved effective, it would be hard to justify the continued killing.

"If we are going to commit to have a program, we have to do what needs to be done," Mr. Stanek said. "Hopefully, it gets beyond the back and forth."

What this administrator wants is an end of debate, no spotlight on deer killing safety issues, lack of effectiveness, high costs, they want to do the killing and say they are doing some, this is following age old hunting interests.  Solon should expect and demand more, that we take the lead and explore non-lethal alternatives.

Saturday, April 16, 2011

News: Apr 2011

Here is a sample of news stories on Solon's Deer Management in April 2011.

Our Ballot Initiative was announced with a Press Release you can see it here.

Solon Patch

Deer Hunting Foes Seeking to Ban Killing Through Ballot Measure
To get a referendum on the ballot to ban deer hunting, opponents must first collect signatures

City Council Quick Takes: Outsourcing, Deer Parks and More

Deer Park Innovator to Brief Solon Officials on Potential Deer Solution

Solon Times

Deer-park proposal may or may not solve problem  04/14/2011

Solon Sun


Solon residents aim to outlaw deer hunting: Animals in the News 4/22/11

Solon residents are signing petitions for a ballot initiative to prevent the killing of deer in the Cleveland suburb.  The petition drive began after council members discussed allowing crossbow hunting, see this article.

Back to Main Site

Tuesday, April 12, 2011

News: Mar 2011

Here is a sample of news stories on Solon's Deer Management in March 2011

Solon Patch

Example Deer Management Plan Includes Bow Hunting  03/19/11
The Village of Granville's Deer Management Prgram was passed out, see the Doc on Patch and the Village's website here.

Solon City Council Rejects Deer Count Bid  03/18/11
In a move that seemed aimed at disabling citizen comments a special meeting was scheduled off camera at 7:30 am to discuss a $30,000 deer counting expenditure.

Quick Take: Solon Moving Quickly on Deer Count  03/09/11

USDA, Ohio Wildlife Officials to Brief Safety Committee on Deer Issues  03/07/11

How Should Solon Manage the Deer Population? 03/04/11

$150,000 Budgeted for Deer Management in Solon  02/21/11

No Deer Management Now, But Solon Is Preparing  02/10/11

Solon Times

Despite 'sticker shock' aerial deer count planned   03/16/2011

Councilman William I. Russo said the aerial count "is something that's needed just to make sure the deer count has grown.  "If there is no increase in deer count, then there is no justification for doing anything," he said  

[Yet on 03/18 Russo along with the rest of council voted to proceed with the deer management plan without this count!  What a difference two days makes!]

State input on deer necessary, city told   03/11/2011   

As emotions run wild, deer rants under fire   02/16/2011

Solon Sun


WTAM 1100 Radio

Solon to hold off on deer culling
Numerous questions need to be answered

Back to Main Site

News: Jan 2011

Here is a sample of news stories on Solon's Deer Management in January 2011

Solon Patch

Deer Culling Has Long, Controversial History in Solon

Crossbow Plan Scrapped, but Comprehensive Deer Program Coming

Contentious Deer Culling Proposal Heads for Solon Council Showdown

Grab Your Crossbow? Solon Considers Hunting Program to Manage Deer

Solon Times

Bowhunting plan draws fire from residents  01/20/2011

Bowhunting explored to reduce deer population  01/05/2011

Solon Sun

Solon City Council removes culling program from agenda; concerns grow about crossbow hunting 01/22/11

Citing a huge public outcry over plans to allow bow hunting of deer, plus the large number of new City Council members who are unfamiliar with the city's ...


Solon Reopens Deer Culling

Back to Main Site

Thursday, April 7, 2011

Here is an excellent letter to council, not only stating their non-lethal position, why lethal options don't work, but also offering concrete action items. Unfortunately several weeks later no one responded.

Letter to Solon City Council2

Wednesday, April 6, 2011

A handful of people's anxiety over wildlife is not Solon's problem

The Buck stops here, as does the Doe and the Fawn. Since 2004, White Buffalo has killed over 1,300 deer in Solon, regardless of age, gender or state of health.

For that service, the city paid out over $800,000 to White Buffalo and Trumbull Locker, as well as Police and Service Department overtime. The net results of the money spent was a brief reduction in deer/car accidents and a return of the deer population to its original numbers.

While allowing hunting with cross-bows in Solon was discussed for a time, Solon is not an appropriate venue for hunting. We are too densely populated, and there is serious doubt as to whether or not hunting, in a suburban setting, would contribute significantly to lowering the deer population. Dr. DeNicola of White Buffalo has even stated in an e-mail to the city that hunting, to reduce deer numbers, would be ineffective and provide nothing more than a recreational opportunity for hunters.

What is going on in Solon has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with salving the fears of a handful of people who cannot come to terms with the wildlife around them. A more practical and humane solution would be to learn to live with the deer, plant appropriate landscaping, drive slower, pay attention to what’s going on around you and hang up the phone!

Don’t allow a handful of people’s anxiety over wildlife to become Solon’s problem! Don’t allow ODNR’s management of our natural resources and subjective viewpoint to become Solon’s problem! We do not know as yet what the comprehensive deer management plan will entail, but we hope that it will take a more enlightened and humane approach, and not repeat past mistakes.

For more on the deer management issues here in Solon please visit solondeer.com.

Heinz Knall

Chagrin Solon Sun

Saturday, April 2, 2011

When hunting doesn't work

then try more hunting...

That's what one Mentor resident seemed to say in response to a poaching rampage in Mentor.

Patch News article. SolonDeer post.

Larry Cardo
7:20pm on Friday, April 1, 2011 
It is about time that someone did something to reduce the number of deer. Our Government who is responsible for maintaining control is nonexistent! The large numbers of deer in Mentor are a joke. It is next to impossible to plant a tree in Mentor. The deer cause hundred of thousands of dollars in vehicle damage and are a deadly threat to motorcyclists. 
Nationwide deer injure thousands and kill about 150 each year. Why? Because the "Ohio division of Wildlife" wants to maintain large herds so hunters can shoot fish in a barrel.
All it takes to reduce the deer population is some guts and an extension of the hunting season. 
Larry Cardo
Mentor, OH

So this hunter is condoning poaching ("about time") and admits the ODOW attempts to keep the herd overpopulated to provide more deer for hunting ("recreational opportunity" according to Scott Peters of the ODOW at Solon Safety Committee Meeting).  He further states that the ODOW is the cause of DVAs.  If killing isn't working, more killing won't either!

Thursday, March 31, 2011

Attention, residents: Solon will start deer culling again.

Solon will once again be rolling out the red carpet for their wildlife deer assassin, Anthony DeNicola, president of White Buffalo.

Here it is, year number 5, in the two-year deer management plan and Solon officials have deemed this ethical travesty a success.

I find it abhorrent that Solon officials define success as a high body count. I find it equally abhorrent that Solon has added annual deer slaughter to its list of the mundane winter schedule -i.e., snow plowing, salting streets, slaughtering deer, putting up Christmas lights, etc. with such thoughtlessness and ruthlessness. Who is representing the moral majority?

Since the decision makers rubber stamp the continued slaughter, without putting any additional measures in place, we are on the predicted treadmill of slaughter.

Why would Solon, in these economical times, be so willing to throw good money after bad? I think it's fair for residents to assume that this will be a perpetual expenditure that can't even be justified as paying for itself.

I'll remember this when I go to the voting polls next fall.

Carol Starcher

Saturday, March 26, 2011

Don't Mess with Deer


4498.6. Behind the scenes at the secret deer planning workshop

by solonjoe3, 02/09/11 9:23 AM
Re: Friends, you gotta read. PB by butdad, 02/09/11 9:23 AM

Stanek: I’ve asked White Buffalo to come and present their comprehensive management plan for our review. But before I give them the floor, let me say a few things first. You guys are driving me crazy. Save the deer. Kill the deer. Captive bolts. Birth control. Catch and release. Crossbows. Introduce wolves. And now there is even talk of lassoing deer and raising them like livestock. We need you guys to shut up.

We had a perfectly good plan with the sharpshooters and you shut it down. Now it is going to cost us a lot more to start it back up. This is bad planning. Worse still, all the crazies are going to show up at meetings and start calling everybody Bambi killers. That is no way to run a city. We professionals are supposed to make all decisions in secret and you political guys are supposed to pass them on the consent agenda. What were you people thinking?

McDrucker: I’m sorry, this one is mainly on me. I shouldn’t have pulled the program for year. I don’t know what I was thinking.

Frankland: That’s the problem with you elected officials. You think you can make decision on your own. Let us professionals do the deciding. I’m shocked after all the years of training you had under Patton you would come out and make such a rookie mistake. It’s going to cost all of us.

Weber: Speaking in financial terms, your mistake was expensive. By skipping a year, the extra cost is going to cut into the Christmas party fund. Instead of Champagne we may have to make do with Hawaiian punch and Everclear.

Pelunis: I warned her. But would she listen no? She just had a Kraus moment. Couldn’t keep her big mouth shut.

McDrucker: Ok, ok everybody. I learned my lesson. I won’t make any more decisions. So what do we do?

Stanek: We hire white buffalo back, that’s what we do. And we shut up about the crossbows.

Russo: Crossbows are cheaper.

Stanek: Look buddy, I don’t tell you how to do your job, so stop telling us how to do ours. Crossbows mean public debate. WE DON’T LIKE PUBLIC DEBATE. It makes folks start asking questions and I want to keep my city car. So just sit on your hands and let us tell you how to vote, ok?

Russo: Ok.

Richmond: I don’t see why we can’t discuss it.

Lobe: Lady, I don’t know how the heck you got appointed, but it was obviously a mistake. Either you play ball or nobody is going to pick up your trash for the next six months.

Frankland: And I’ll have more inspectors at your house than you can shake a stick at.

Stanek: Ok. White Buffalo, you have the floor.

Here's what started it...


4498. Friends, you gotta read. PB
by butdad, 02/08/11 7:21 PM

I figured a few folks would enjoy a laugh.

Why we shoot deer in the wild

(A letter from someone who wants to remain anonymous, who farms, writes well and actually tried this).

I had this idea that I could rope a deer, put it in a stall, feed it up on corn for a couple of weeks, then kill it and eat it. The first step in this adventure was getting a deer. I figured that, since they congregate at my cattle feeder and do not seem to have much fear of me when we are there (a bold one will sometimes come right up and sniff at the bags of feed while I am in the back of the truck not 4 feet away), it should not be difficult to rope one, get up to it and toss a bag over its head (to calm it down) then hog tie it and transport it home.

I filled the cattle feeder then hid down at the end with my rope. The cattle, having seen the roping thing before, stayed well back.. They were not having any of it. After about 20 minutes, my deer showed up -- 3 of them. I picked out a likely looking one, stepped out from the end of the feeder, and threw my rope.

The deer just stood there and stared at me. I wrapped the rope around my waist and twisted the end so I would have a good hold.

The deer still just stood and stared at me, but you could tell it was mildly concerned about the whole rope situation. I took a step towards it, it took a step away. I put a little tension on the rope .., and then received an education. The first thing that I learned is that, while a deer may just stand there looking at you funny while you rope it, they are spurred to action when you start pulling on that rope.

That deer EXPLODED. The second thing I learned is that pound for pound, a deer is a LOT stronger than a cow or a colt. A cow or a colt in that weight range I could fight down with a rope and with some dignity.. A deer -- no Chance. That thing ran and bucked and twisted and pulled. There was no controlling it and certainly no getting close to it. As it jerked me off my feet and started dragging me across the ground, it occurred to me that having a deer on a rope was not nearly as good an idea as I had originally imagined. The only upside is that they do not have as much stamina as many other animals.

A brief 10 minutes later, it was tired and not nearly as quick to jerk me off my feet and drag me when I managed to get up. It took me a few minutes to realize this, since I was mostly blinded by the blood flowing out of the big gash in my head. At that point, I had lost my taste for corn-fed venison. I just wanted to get that devil creature off the end of that rope.

I figured if I just let it go with the rope hanging around its neck, it would likely die slow and painfully somewhere. At the time, there was no love at all between me and that deer. At that moment, I hated the thing, and I would venture a guess that the feeling was mutual. Despite the gash in my head and the several large knots where I had cleverly arrested the deer's momentum by bracing my head against various large rocks as it dragged me across the ground, I could still think clearly enough to recognize that there was a small chance that I shared some tiny amount of responsibility for the situation we were in. I didn't want the deer to have to suffer a slow death, so I managed to get it lined back up in between my truck and the feeder a little trap I had set before hand...kind of like a squeeze chute. I got it to back in there and I started moving up so I could get my rope back.

Did you know that deer bite?

They do! I never in a million years would have thought that a deer would bite somebody, so I was very surprised when . I reached up there to grab that rope and the deer grabbed hold of my wrist. Now, when a deer bites you, it is not like being bit by a horse where they just bite you and slide off to then let go.

A deer bites you and shakes its head--almost like a pit bull. They bite HARD and it hurts.

The proper thing to do when a deer bites you is probably to freeze and draw back slowly. I tried screaming and shaking instead. My method was ineffective.

It seems like the deer was biting and shaking for several minutes, but it was likely only several seconds. I, being smarter than a deer (though you may be questioning that claim by now), tricked it. While I kept it busy tearing the tendons out of my right arm, I reached up with my left hand and pulled that rope loose.

That was when I got my final lesson in deer behavior for the day.

Deer will strike at you with their front feet. They rear right up on their back feet and strike right about head and shoulder level, and their hooves are surprisingly sharp... I learned a long time ago that, when an animal -like a horse --strikes at you with their hooves and you can't get away easily, the best thing to do is try to make a loud noise and make an aggressive move towards the animal. This will usually cause them to back down a bit so you can escape.

This was not a horse. This was a deer, so obviously, such trickery would not work.. In the course of a millisecond, I devised a different strategy. I screamed like a woman and tried to turn and run. The reason I had always been told NOT to try to turn and run from a horse that paws at you is that there is a good chance that it will hit you in the back of the head. Deer may not be so different from horses after all, besides being twice as strong and 3 times as evil, because the second I turned to run, it hit me right in the back of the head and knocked me down.

Now, when a deer paws at you and knocks you down, it does not immediately leave I suspect it does not recognize that the danger has passed. What they do instead is paw your back and jump up and down on you while you are laying there crying like a little girl and covering your head.

I finally managed to crawl under the truck and the deer went away. So now I know why when people go deer hunting they bring a rifle with a scope......to sort of even the odds!!

All these events are true so help me God...

An Educated Farmer